How to pass or be passed in workout

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:05:00 GMT

...and I got him in the... with my paddles. I don't think he'll ever pass anyone on the left during a flip turn again :) As they say, it's not supposed to be a contact sport. But sometimes it does turn into one. And yes thanks to the AAU days...it's always been my understanding that a tap on the foot means get out of the way ...or to stay put on the wall until the passer makes the pass. It's really the coaches job to group people according to similar ability on longer sets ...which unfortunately doesn't always happen. And this is why lane etiquette is important. I have yet to see the ankle tug and dunk in a masters practice, but you never know.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

knelson — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:32:17 GMT

The touch (not significant tap) Is this that easy to accomplish? It's my experience that just tapping a foot isn't always easy. People are kicking, there's bubbles, etc. Sometimes you miss the person's foot altogether, other times you clobber them more than you intended to.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Redbird Alum — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:17 GMT

In a circle-swim practice, passing anywhere in the lane except at the wall creates a safety issue for the poor swimmers coming the opposite direction, who have no idea why you just crowded their side, and/or knocked the crap out of their arm/elbow/shoulder. The touch (not significant tap) of the slower lead swimmers toe allows them to stop at the wall (off to the side) and allow as many swimmers to pass as need to. Adjustments to order are then confirmed at the end of the repeat/swim.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

aquajock — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:32:05 GMT

If the lane is crowded STOP doing breaststroke; It is inconsiderate. I personally think its inconsiderate for another swimmer to expect me not to train appropriately for my races just because it's "inconvenient" to pass me.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

swimshark — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:12 GMT

This was actually encouraged when were age groupers (and by our coach no less). We had an Olympic distance swimmer on the team who did 100's on the minute interval. And he'd sail into the wall at :54 pace or better. If the last guy in his lane wasn't out of his way after the initial tap...down they went. Our coach tells us that if a kid won't get out of the way "run over them". As the only adult in the practice, I have yet to do this. I'm too nice for that. I did have a kid try to pass me on the left while doing a flip turn. I didn't see him until I pushed off right in to him. I ended up with a nasty finger cut and I got him in the groin with my paddles. I don't think he'll ever pass anyone on the left during a flip turn again :)

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

norascats — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:56:21 GMT

The correct thing to do in your Go the Distance log would be to enter instead of 3000 yards enter 2999.3. That way your log is accurate.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Celestial — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:16:11 GMT

What is this nonsense Michael? Tapping feet and courteous passing behavior? That is not how it is done. If someone made the mistake of swimming slow in your lane, you, without any kind of warning, grab their ankle and zing them right back into the swimmer behind you. Simple, effective and everyone is happy. Is this what they mean by The Rite of Passage? I LOVE this!! I have a friend in my masters group (that I rarely get to swim with any more) that we do this to each other - and it started out on a kick set, so you could see the mischievous grin on our faces! Now that I swim with the kids - sometimes I would LOVE to do that - but I'm afraid I'll lose my mojo & then not be able to keep up the pace on the next set!! The USA-S coach spent a good 10 minutes the other morning yelling at the teenagers about this very thing - his point - in a 50m pool, the lanes are generally wide enough for three people abreast for short distances - and sometimes four. Speeding up when someone is going around you is considered bad form, and resting on the wall for everyone to swim past you is too! I make it a point to always apologize to the kids & tell the coach it was my fault, because I didn't realize I was faster than so & so - that makes that particular kid swim even faster!

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:00:57 GMT

I personally think its inconsiderate for another swimmer to expect me not to train appropriately for my races just because it's "inconvenient" to pass me. Ease up. If you are kicking people because the lane is too crowded then you need to stop. I doubt you disagree with me about that.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

aquajock — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:01:13 GMT

Ease up. If you are kicking people because the lane is too crowded then you need to stop. I doubt you disagree with me about that. If I saw someone coming around me, I would do a fly kick or two while they pass, not stop doing breaststroke. Imagine telling a freestyler to change to another stroke? LOL. I can't remember ever kicking anyone (other than the laneline) in practice. I have hit some arms doing fly and free, though...

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Speedo — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 01:49:00 GMT

Ease up. If you are kicking people because the lane is too crowded then you need to stop. I doubt you disagree with me about that.I wouldn't disagree with this, but check the title- it's not about kicking people.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:53:46 GMT

Oh, lighten up. If you want to turn in the middle of the pool, who really cares? There's nothing wrong with a mid pool turn at all. In fact, I'd opt for a mid pool turn over toe tapping the guy/gal in front of me. No one likes a toe tapper. Agreed. I've done the early turn many times to avoid disrupting the person in front of me, who is obviously an inexperienced swimmer since I am passing them. This thread reminds me of the good old days when my Masters group had enough people to actually require passing. Ah, the days of swimming 3 or 4 to a lane, drafting, being drafted.. . Now I'm lucky if anyone shows up. Last week I was the only one there at 5:30 AM.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:02:27 GMT

Ugg if someone tapped me on the foot it would really piss me off. I guess it would be a sign of the person being courteous, but still it would really annoy me. It is all about awareness. If someone is probably going to pass you, let them do it. If the lane is crowded STOP doing breaststroke; It is inconsiderate. Don't push off in front of someone going much faster than you. If someone waits on the wall for you because they see you are going faster, continue going fast even if that disrupts your intended set (with in reason of course. I might suggest that if you are doing 25 sprints, you do 20 sprints and cruise in the last 5 yards so the people see that you are slowing down). If somoene is completely unaware, inconsiderate or whatever the case may be, pass them by cutting the lap. Finally, if somone is being inconsiderate, it doesn't hurt to tell them nicely. Typically they have no idea.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:39:42 GMT

Another item that I left out that I was reminded of this morning: passing by turning around in the middle of the pool is CHEATING. A former coach of mine looked dimly on this practice and solved it rapidly: the first time someone was caught turning in the middle, practice was stopped while everyone watched the offender swim a 200 fly. The second time it happened, the offender swam a 500 fly and the rest of the team swam 200 fly. There was never a third time. Luckily, as masters swimmers, we don't have to put up with such bull:censor: now.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:18:11 GMT

If someone made the mistake of swimming slow in your lane, you, without any kind of warning, grab their ankle and zing them right back into the swimmer behind you. Simple, effective and everyone is happy. This was actually encouraged when were age groupers (and by our coach no less). We had an Olympic distance swimmer on the team who did 100's on the minute interval. And he'd sail into the wall at :54 pace or better. If the last guy in his lane wasn't out of his way after the initial tap...down they went.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:14:58 GMT

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

swimshark — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:27:35 GMT

I agree. I severely sprained my ankle 2 years ago, and it is still extremely sensitive to anything unusual. And yes, even what some may consider a slight tap can inflame a sprained ankle. I can't even remember the last time I had to deal with tapping, but some people will do an ankle touch to stop me (if warm-up is over, if I'm in a set and the coach wants me, etc)...and that is far worse. I'm glad I'm not the only one with sensitive ankles. Right now with the high ankle sprain still swelling most days, any touching is rough on me.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

jaadams1 — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:56:13 GMT

-2 James Adams crap, wrong thread It's a good thing I can't be in that thread, or I'd probably be out after the following 5 posts.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

That Guy — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:52:19 GMT

-2 James Adams crap, wrong thread

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

aztimm — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:23:09 GMT

If someone taps too hard and pushes my foot out of its position it can severely hurt me. I'm not even allowed to jump in the pool now for what it does to my foot. I agree. I severely sprained my ankle 2 years ago, and it is still extremely sensitive to anything unusual. And yes, even what some may consider a slight tap can inflame a sprained ankle. I can't even remember the last time I had to deal with tapping, but some people will do an ankle touch to stop me (if warm-up is over, if I'm in a set and the coach wants me, etc)...and that is far worse. As for passing, if you are circle swimming during workout, and you're not blind, I think most people have an idea how close they are to those in front and those behind. If the person behind me is too close, I'll pull into a corner at the next wall and let them pass. If I'm too close to the person in front, I'll either slow down, or at the next break ask if I can go ahead.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

knelson — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:59:31 GMT

It's only cheating if you count that missed yardage in your Go The Distance total. :D Actually I'm sort of obsessed about entering correct totals in GTD. It drives me nuts when I'm at a swim meet or do an open water swim and have to estimate how far I swam. What if I'm off by 100 yards or meters? Oh the humanity!

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

aquageek — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:48:57 GMT

... passing by turning around in the middle of the pool is CHEATING. Oh, lighten up. If you want to turn in the middle of the pool, who really cares? There's nothing wrong with a mid pool turn at all. In fact, I'd opt for a mid pool turn over toe tapping the guy/gal in front of me. No one likes a toe tapper.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

knelson — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:43:25 GMT

I do not know if there is any hydrodynamic evidence that you would be pulling his weight There isn't. The reason I said it could actually be an advantage is the trailing swimmer might act as a fairing which reduces the size of your wake. I really can't imagine this accounts for much, but having someone on your feet definitely won't hurt you, either.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

swimshark — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:48 GMT

It is a tap, usually on the toe, usually with the fingertips. Not a closed fist punch. Those are for the locker room. If someone taps too hard and pushes my foot out of its position it can severely hurt me. I'm not even allowed to jump in the pool now for what it does to my foot.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Michael Heather — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:38:18 GMT

Maybe you're kidding, but just wanted to point out that someone drafting doesn't affect the speed of the lead swimmer. If anything it makes them faster--but probably it doesn't affect them at all (other than the annoyance). It was kind of kidding, but the point is that being annoyed is not helping you in practice. Taking the position that they are helping you is a positive step for you and takes the power away from Mr. Drag. I do not know if there is any hydrodynamic evidence that you would be pulling his weight, but why not think that way? It is a training technique for which you don't have to pay or even think about. I used to have people drag on me a lot (when I was much younger). It bugged me for a wile, then I found ways to play with them. It made my legs much stronger and better yet, it made them annoyed.

RE: How to pass or be passed in workout

Michael Heather — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:29:20 GMT

I strongly disagree with you on the toe touching. If you have to touch someone's toes, you've already had to decrease your pace. The toe touch presumes that the overtaken person is not aware that he is being lapped/passed. Ideally, everyone knows where everyone else is in the lane. I do. They should also know the relative speeds of their lane mates. But that is not a common case, just like the number of people who can read a pace clock and leave on the correct interval. Another item that I left out that I was reminded of this morning: passing by turning around in the middle of the pool is CHEATING. A former coach of mine looked dimly on this practice and solved it rapidly: the first time someone was caught turning in the middle, practice was stopped while everyone watched the offender swim a 200 fly. The second time it happened, the offender swam a 500 fly and the rest of the team swam 200 fly. There was never a third time.