Nutrition - Recent Threads

RE: Fasted exercise

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 30 Mar 2026 16:47:18 GMT

Unfortunately, the information you are sharing is not backed by science. I choose to get my medical information from Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic, both considered two of the most trusted websites by the medical community and Consumer Reports. I also trust the American Cancer Society and American Heart Association, and both would be extremely alarmed by the "information" you are sharing here. Fiber, for example, is well documented and studied as being extremely necessary to help prevent colon cancer, for starters.

You have your beliefs, fine. Swimmers who are reading this: I strongly suggest you ignore the recommendations by this "nutrition counselor" and get your nutrition information from the websites I listed above.

Fasted exercise

06KWC — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 01:14:03 GMT

To eat or not to eat prior to exercise, that is the question!

There are several factors that go into this decision:

What is your daily nutrition? Mine - I’m animal-based, low-carb ketogenic. This means that I maintain my carbohydrate intake to less than 5% of my overall nutrition. I generally consume 60% fats and 35% protein.

How often do you exercise? Me - daily cardio/weight training, and swimming 2-3 times a week.

What is your goal? Mine - live until 120, swim into my 100s, and maintain overall general good health.

My preference? I prefer to exercise in a fasted state. Eating anything before exercise tends to make me feel sluggish, whether in the gym or in the water. If I’m putting in a double workout, cardio/strength training in the morning (0600) and a swim in the afternoon (1500), I eat breakfast after my morning workout and dinner after I swim.

Caution - The more carbohydrate dependent you are, the more difficult it is to exercise in a fasted state.

When not to exercise fasted - if you feel dizzy or nauseous, stop exercising and get some fats and proteins (bacon and eggs).

RE: Fasted exercise

06KWC — Sun, 29 Mar 2026 14:11:31 GMT

I only mentioned my family history because you mentioned my diet and cancer.

Fiber isn't required. There is no causal link that fiber is healthy or necessary.

I believe a lack of cholesterol in the brain during development causes autism.

The Blue Zone documentary was proven inaccurate. They downplayed the amount of lamb, pig, chicken, and fish the people ate.

The Mediterranean Sea has 22 countries that border it. All with different cultures and eating habits. 1/3 of which are heavy meat eaters.

The "studies" are flawed. Epidemiological studies where they give people a once a year food frequency questionnaire asking them to list quantitatively what they ate. Most people can't remember what they ate last week, let alone for the past year.

True, we each have to make decisions. I've made mine. Just just want everyone to have the information and make the most informed decision.

I bring to light the lies we've been told about nutrition since the 1800s. Then people make their decision.

RE: Fasted exercise

Elaine Krugman — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 16:50:44 GMT

Your family cancer stats are a VERY small sample of the population and doesn't prove anything. There is no way to prove that the cause of their cancer was from their whole food plant-based diet. There are many other causes of cancer besides diet.

A meat diet like yours is lacking in fiber; you might want to consider regular colonoscopies.

Do you also believe vaccines cause autism?

You can always find studies to support your belief...

Personally, I choose to believe the studies that have concluded the Mediterranean diet is the healthiest. The existing Blue Zones in the world have convinced me. I choose to get a lot of my protein from salmon, other fish and seafood, and nuts.

RE: Fasted exercise

06KWC — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 19:31:40 GMT

I totally understand the issue that is GERD. It wasn't until I adopted an animal-based diet that I was able to trash my bottles and bottles of Tums and Rolaids. I always recommend people steer clear of both bananas and oatmeal. A medium banana and 1 cup cooked oatmeal each contain 27g of carbs. That's a 54g carb snack.

Just remember, eventually, all carbs (except fiber) convert to glucose in the body. I believe this fuels metabolic disease, we call it aging.

If you haven't done so already, I recommend to all my clients over 40 to have a Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC score) and a Carotid Intima-Media Thickness (CIMT). Both of these provide assessment of cardiovascular risk. Insurance will not cover the imaging, but they are relatively inexpensive (around $100 each).

Happy Swimming!

RE: Fasted exercise

06KWC — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 19:24:09 GMT

Not at all.

There is a great deal of research out showing that dietary cholesterol does not impact blood serum cholesterol. There is evidence that in the 1950's, the Sugar Research Foundation paid off 3 Harvard Researchers to say that saturated fat and cholesterol caused heart disease. There is no causation link between high LDL and heart disease, unless you are an overweight type 2 diabetic with a metabolic disease.

Cancer is caused by mitochondrial dysfunction and fueled by sugar. There is no causation link that shows eating red meat causes ANY disease. Another propaganda lie in an attempt to get people off the most nutrient dense food - cow.

For perspective, here is my family cancer stats:

2 - whole food plant-based members died from cancer

1 - Standard American Diet (SAD) eater died from cancer

3 - SAD eaters got and survived cancer.

By those numbers, a person is better off eating meat as part of a *** diet than be plant-based.

The research is mostly epidemiological (observational). Meaning they give people a food frequency questionnaire and say "okay, tell me what you've eaten for the past year with quantitative accuracy". The worst I saw was every 4 years. These studies compare plant-based to SAD, not plant-based to animal-based. The SAD peoples diet generally consists of 45-60% carbohydrates, I generally remain less than 10%.

I have seen studies where they count lasagna as "meat" and a hamburger with fries and a coke as "meat". It's one of the great lies of the past 2 centuries.

Don't forget that veggies also contain oxalates, toxins, and anti-nutrients. They are not all sunshine and roses.

I have helped both vegans and vegetarians introduce beef into their diet. The response is always the same, "I didn't realize how sick I was."

RE: Fasted exercise

Todd Moran — Thu, 19 Mar 2026 18:16:37 GMT

My biggest problem with swimming is acid reflux and my need to time my swimming with when I eat. In the early morning, I need something like a small meal with a banana and oatmeal. I will then have a protein drink like Orgain after I swim. A late afternoon swim is the best due to timing the workout between lunch and dinner. My overall strategy is to have more small meals throughout the day. I like the convenience of protein drinks to help get most of my protein intake.

RE: Fasted exercise

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 19 Mar 2026 17:46:49 GMT

Another thought... Aren't you concerned about your cholesterol level and getting colon cancer (or other cancers) with you current diet? I would be!

RE: Fasted exercise

Elaine Krugman — Wed, 18 Mar 2026 20:02:58 GMT

I edited my previous post, because I forgot to add that our smoothie also contains Greek yogurt. Calculating it out, I am getting 50 grams of carbs and 25 grams of sugars in my smoothie.

The 1/2 carton of Orgain protein drink that I have before my swim has NO carbs and NO sugar. It sits better in my stomach than food before I swim, which is about 40 minutes after I wake up.

RE: Fasted exercise

06KWC — Wed, 18 Mar 2026 01:03:35 GMT

Just some friendly advice. As a nutrition coach, I feel compelled to respond.

I don't promote shakes or smoothies. Of note, plant-based protein isn't as bioavailable to humans as animal protein. It's good that the brand you're drinking contains a small serving of carbohydrates. So many protein shakes contain too many ingredients and too much sugar. I'd be more concerned about the smoothie. Estimating quantities, you could be consuming 60g of carbs and approx. 30g of sugar. Most carbohydrates (simple, complex, fructose) eventually convert to glucose in the body.

We've been lied to about nutrition for the past 2 centuries. We require fats and proteins for life and health but not carbohydrates. Our body can use gluconeogenesis to produce the glucose we need, using amino acids, glycerol, and lactate. Granted, some people can consume carbohydrates and not see issues for decades, we call it aging.

This information may not change your mind, but perhaps it will help someone that is confused about nutrition.

Happy Swimming!

RE: Fasted exercise

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:47:51 GMT

I prefer no solids before I swim in the morning. I buy the cartons of Orgain plant based protein drinks at Costco and drink half of it before I swim, and then the other half immediately after I swim. When I return home, my husband makes us the BEST smoothies: Orgain protein powder, Orgain Creatine powder(a new addition), Greek yogurt, vanilla soymilk, frozen blueberries, frozen strawberries, chia seeds, and flax seeds.

RE: Workout recovery for over 60

ZVP6H — Sun, 03 Aug 2025 17:35:04 GMT

Thanks for this and all the replies! Since I posted that 10 months ago my sleep issues have really improved. Active recovery was great advice, and I'm going to check into creatine, although I've never taken supplements of any kind...maybe it's time to do that closing in on 65.

Workout recovery for over 60

ZVP6H — Mon, 23 Sep 2024 23:59:57 GMT

I swim about 1600-2000 meters (short course) a couple of times a week, sometimes three. I'm looking for advice on how to improve my recovery. While I'm working out I feel great, but after, and for a good 24 hours after, I feel completely wiped out. I find it difficult to sleep after a workout (takes the form of waking up a lot during the night), which feels so counter-intuitive if I'm so spent and feeling good about it.

I have never taken vitamins or supplements, only because I've never felt I needed to. But I figure I must be nutritionally deficient in something. I'd like to improve these recovery periods. Any advice?

RE: Workout recovery for over 60

Linda Chapman — Sun, 03 Aug 2025 16:43:34 GMT

I'm 69 years old and struggled similarly with recovery, but recently I'm doing better. I swim MWF about 3K on MW, Friday is speedwork. I lift T/TH. I usually swim easier on Wednesday since Monday and Tuesday are hard days. Saturday or Sunday is a walk with hills, and the other day is complete rest. I started taking creatine a month or so ago and it has helped with recovery and with workout performance - especially near the end of practice. Sometimes I feel like superwoman! I added a low calorie protein bar or shake before bed that seems to be helping with recovery. The scientific studies on this usually use ~ 40g of protein and less than 220 calories. I go a bit less - either a 21g protein bar (low cal) or a 36g/180 cal protein shake. I actually feel good the day after a hard workout!

I echo the others advice to hydrate. Additionally, I rarely drink alcohol now since it interferes with my sleep. There are some nice NA beers and the array of bubble (seltzer) waters is fantastic. I also echo the active recovery advice. Easy movement is beneficial.

Going a bit off thread here: For postmenopausal women, it is apparently essential to get 40g to 60g of protein after your hard workout and feeding should start within 45 minutes (Dr. Stacy Sims). Men don't have the same time urgency, but they still need to get a big hit of protein after workout.

RE: Workout recovery for over 60

90N61 — Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:50:40 GMT

PS: there is no benefit of drinking alcohol that outweighs the damage. My best resource for sleep is Matt Walker PhD neurobiologist researcher for sleep. The book and youtube videos are enjoyable

RE: Workout recovery for over 60

90N61 — Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:46:15 GMT

It may help to get a professional to methodically look for anything that needs attention in the basic 6-8 areas: per www. lifestylemedicine.org: Nutrition, exercise, stress management restorative sleep- the apps Sleepwatch and ICBT helped me), community/purpose, and avoid risky substances. Per Newstart Program: nutrition, exercise, water, sunshine, temperance, fresh air, rest, trust in God. This may be multifactorial, and deserves an objective, wholistic approach

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

06KWC — Fri, 02 May 2025 19:41:00 GMT

Thanks for the information. It's always difficult with where I swim. My phone has zero service. It's a beautiful swim though.

Chris

Training to 8-miles in cold water

06KWC — Sat, 26 Apr 2025 21:07:05 GMT

I'm training to swim 8 miles again (summer 2026. 2025 got away from me). Being an open water distance swimmer in Idaho can be difficult but it's not impossible. I'm hoping the USMS community can share what they have learned about swimming in cold fresh water.

Results: My first swim was completed in approximately 4hrs 15 minutes

Goal: cut down my swim time to 3hrs 30 minutes (cutting 5 1/2 minutes per mile)

Background: I live in a small town of 520 people with no access to a public swimming pool. The nearest pool is a 90-minute drive. As a result, I purchased a propulsion pool to train for distance swimming. I live at 6,000 ft elevation. The reservoir is close at 5,500 ft elevation.

Reservoir swimming: Most of the "lakes" around me are man-made. Utilized for watering the crops in the area.

Timeframe: The reservoirs are frozen for 4 - 6 months per year. The best time to swim a reservoir is mid to late July.

Water temperature: The water is typically 50 - 55 degrees F.

Training regimen: I make a plan. The plan is broken down into the overarching goal, swim 8 miles. From there, it is broken down into monthly, weekly goals.

For example, my monthly goal is to increase my swim time from 40 minutes to 60 minutes. 1st week goal is maintaining 50 strokes per minute (SPM) for 40 minutes, 2nd week goal is maintaining 45 SPM for 45 minutes, 3rd week goal is maintaining 50 SPM for 50 minutes, 4th week goal is maintaining 45-50 SPM for 60 minutes.

I use SPM because I have ProForm goggles that display SPM information for me to track.

Cold training: My pool is kept at 68 degrees F. Two months prior to my swim, I will start doing short swims in the reservoir. This really helps get the body used to the cold water.

Lesson learned: My first swim was with a swimsuit, cap, and goggles. This next swim will be with a 3mil wetsuit, cap and smart goggles. After my last swim, I was frozen by the time I got to mile 7 of 8 and it took 2 hours to warm up.

Other training: I incorporate strength training, cardio, and flexibility exercises into my training program. I have come to love warming up on my echo bike (10 miles), then its strength training (legs everyday), 1-mile walk on the treadmill at a 7 - 8 incline, followed by flexibility exercises and stretching.

Question to the group - What advice would you have for me to help me reach my goal of cutting 45 minutes off my swim???

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

ForceDJ — Thu, 01 May 2025 13:16:54 GMT

[quote userid="33011" url="~/health-and-nutrition/f/nutrition/32862/training-to-8-miles-in-cold-water/297660"]I believe the STRAVA app requires cell service (internet) to utilize. I'd be interested in using the app for other swims. What do you like/dislike about it?[/quote]

Strava and other fitness tracking, and navigation apps on cell phones use GPS (and cell if/when available). There are certain aspects of Strava that require cell connectivity…such as sending the Strava Beacon txt. But if you have your cell phone with you on the swim, it will track your movements using GPS (all cell phones have a GPS receiver built in). And of course if you’re using a fitness device, it can connect to the phone via Bluetooth…either during the activity (if you have the phone with you), or after the activity once the phone is back on your person (if you have the GPS device paired with the phone). Strava probably isn’t a great app for swimming. I use it this way: I have an old, basic Garmin GPS watch that was developed simply as a running watch, the Forerunner 25(now discontinued). Since it was developed as running watch it doesn’t work in the water very well. It’s waterproof, but its software looses satellite connectivity when it plunges into the water. SO…I strap it to the top of the inflatable safety buoy that I pull. It stays above the water, and GPS connected. Then, back at the house, I upload the activity from the watch to my Strava account. But I don’t get any stats other than a map/route, distance, time, and pace (Strava then estimates SPM but it isn’t accurate). There are fitness watches available that are developed specifically for swimming (o/w and pool) that have all those bells and whistles. But I just don’t need all that for my personal use.

Dan

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

06KWC — Wed, 30 Apr 2025 22:12:19 GMT

In my original post I said "This next swim will be with a 3mil wetsuit, cap and smart goggles." It was one of the lessons I learned from swimming in cold water in a swimsuit. LOL

I believe the STRAVA app requires cell service (internet) to utilize. I'd be interested in using the app for other swims. What do you like/dislike about it?

My smart goggles won't give me much information apart from SPM unless I'm swimming in a pool, then they can give all kinds of information.

Amen on the recovery from surgeries ... they suck! I had both shoulders fixed 20 years ago, and the right one fixed again (torn labrum) 5 years ago. Hoping I'm done with surgeries.

Thanks for the communications.

Chris

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

ForceDJ — Wed, 30 Apr 2025 14:21:34 GMT

Oh. In your OP you mentioned that you did use a wetsuit in previous swims. Not sure what you mean by internet service WRT to maintaining focus. At any rate…doing cold water plunges through the winter may help with acclimating. Yikes on the shoulder surgeries. I’ve had one for a torn rotator cuff. Recovery from them is terrible. — Dan

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

06KWC — Wed, 30 Apr 2025 10:28:21 GMT

Thanks for the information.

The reservoir i swim in has no internet service so I'm trying to figure out something to maintain my focus. Totally agree that choppy water will effect the accuracy. I'm adhd and even a mile swim challenges my focus.

I rely on my legs quite a bit for propulsion. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries. One left and two right.if I don't maintain a 6 beat kick, I may swim backwards. LOL the farthest I've swam is 11 miles maintaining that kick. May be from growing up as a runner.

The reservoir is covered in two feet of ice and snow during the winter. With outside temps dropping to as low as -40 degrees, swimming outside is suicide. Not to mention that the access points are impassable because of the feet of snow.

I will definitely look into a hood and gloves for my swim. I've never used a wetsuit, should be interesting.

Chris

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

ForceDJ — Tue, 29 Apr 2025 12:56:27 GMT

I can see that the SPM training is a good way to build your speed over longer distances. However, in your actual swim…out in the elements…SPM ‘could’ end up being inaccurate, or a misnomer, if/when you’re swimming against even a lite wind. In other words, after a ## strokes you won’t have gone as far against the wind as you would have in its absence. Just about all my open water swimming is at sea level, in the brine. And I will say that just about ALWAYS, when I turn to swim against the wind, even slight winds, my pace drops off noticeably. It’s obvious on my Strava entry. Even on the half-mile loop I have round a mooring field at my neighborhood beach…you can see my pace drop off on every lap when I’m going against the wind. Secondly, your leg training. I mean in addition to swimming, I’m a cyclist and a bit of a runner too. So if you’re adding the leg regime just to vary your cardio training…I get that. But WRT to actual swimming…are you kicking that much? Why? Limit your kick to maintaining good body position, and reserve that energy for your stroke. The neoprene of the wetsuit legs will help with that too. Regarding your body core temperature…I have friends here in Rhode Island that swim in the open water through the winter. Plus/minus 1-hour swims in water temps in the high 30s°F. In addition to their wetsuits, they wear neoprene gloves, booties, and a neoprene hood. Since you plan to wear a wetsuit in your actual swim…and thereby couldn’t be considered for recording by the MSF which doesn’t permit ANY neoprene…you might consider adding those items to help maintain a warmer core temp. — Dan

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

06KWC — Sun, 27 Apr 2025 15:55:26 GMT

Appreciate the information. The plan I explained is just an example. Generally, I work up to a 4-hour swim with different focuses at different times.

RE: Training to 8-miles in cold water

Erik Hochstein — Sun, 27 Apr 2025 14:13:38 GMT

Wow - amazing project !! I don't know open water swimming or propulsion pools. The things that "popped out" for me

- SPM; that is probably THE most important part of swimming - timed SPM - in a pool if you do LCM - how many strokes in a 50, then try same time with less strokes. Increasing the SPM is usually not a "good" thing unless you are a max sprinter. In a propulsion pool - I would try to start off on a clean long SPM and increase the propulsion speed - not the SPM if that works - increasing SPM usually means less efficient swimming.

- HR - heart rate is super important. I would track that - get a baseline you can hold for 30-45 min easily ... then see what happens at higher level.

- Max sessions; after 2-6 weeks "warm-up" plan -- you need max sessions ! Variety is fine but in terms of minutes -- 10x2 minutes - descend 1-3 and then maintain the highest level you can 4-10 -- push the limits of your body and your body will respond ... again you need to be "ready" for doing this - but that's the goal.

- last - ideally, you need to do some loooooonnnnnggg sessions ... again - if you train "only" 45-60 min sessions - and ask your body to drop in for 3.5 hours ... may be unhappy.