Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Fri, 07 Mar 2025 17:28:16 GMT

I apologize for the delay in response, this got lost in the swarm of the many replies. That is not true that more meat and dairy means shorter life... If you look at the entirety of the studies that have been completed, they are observational (a food questionnaire every 6-12 months asking people what they ate). They do not include actual individuals on a ketogenic or carnivore diet. "Meat eaters", as they call them are your typical standard American dieters, a far cry from someone on an actual Ketogenic diet. Can you list everything you ate in the past 3 days? let alone the past year? There was one study that gave individuals a questionnaire once every 4 years.

I spend my time reviewing studies (reading the entire study, not just the abstract), getting to the nuts and bolts of it, and I've learned that people are being played for fools with *** studies that at best show a minimal correlation and at worst are outright lies. Correlation doesn't not show causation. They cannot remove the confounders of someone smoking, not exercising, not getting adequate sleep, or eating dingdongs.

I would love to see a randomized controlled trial of true ketogenic people. It's in the works but hard to find.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 18:24:35 GMT

LOL and selling "plant-based" products isn't a marketing scheme? It totally is, and that can't be disputed.

All foods are processed, unless you just pick your veggies out of the ground and start eating it without cleaning it, its processed. Bacon is cured, and jerky is dehydrated. They are not highly processed. I know because I make my own.

If you are truly Ketogenic, you don't purchase ANY of the boxed, bagged labeled "keto" crap. You just eat meat. I don't do bulletproof coffee, because it's not necessary I would love to see who authored the article, they are typically vegetarian, if not vegan.

There is no causation link between red meat and cancer or heart disease. Actually, quite the contrary, I have listened to individuals telling their story about being cured of cancer by completing a 21-day water fast and then adopting a high-fat meat-based ketogenic diet. These people had stage 3 & 4 cancer. Also, if you look at the link between reduction in red meat consumption and the increase in diseases, its undeniable. Many of the diseases we have today didn't exist 150 years ago when we were eating a meat heavy diet. The first recorded case of heart disease by autopsy was in 1912, thirty years later it is the leading cause of death in America.

Also, they are conducting studies now in regard to autism. Alzheimer's, and dementia; finding that children born to vegan/vegetarians are more likely to have autism and that people who consume animal fat are less likely to develop Alzheimer's or dementia.

So, while I do applaud you for being steadfast in your belief, you have not provided valid evidence that being vegan is "healthy". Yes, it's better than the Standard American Diet, but it doesn't Trump what we have been designed to eat, which is meat.

Please don't bring up the Game Changer "documentary" which was a propaganda plug for Beyond Meat sponsored by a vegetarian. Fascinating you won't see a carnivore trying to make meat taste like Broccoli, but vegans are always trying to make their veggies and beans taste like meat.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Erik Hochstein — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 15:16:04 GMT

Your dispute is pure $$$$ - and thats undisputed - and I would discourage people to listen to industry sponsored people trying to sell you things but lower your lifespan and health - its really sad....

Keto's Popularity Is Fueled by Meat and Dairy Industry Marketing

The meat and dairy industries have been quick to capitalize on the keto trend. They've successfully positioned their products as "keto-friendly" staples, which has led to increased consumption of animal-based foods.

Processed meats like bacon, sausage, and jerky are often marketed as "perfect for keto", even though these foods are highly processed and linked to cancer and heart disease.
The butter industry has seen a massive resurgence thanks to keto influencers promoting bulletproof coffee (coffee with butter and oil).

💰 Marketing Impact:
Grocery stores now feature "keto sections" packed with animal-based products, encouraging people to double down on meat and dairy consumption while skipping over healthier plant-based options.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 02:51:08 GMT

Congratulations on your weight loss, though that generally isn't my focus. I too have experienced a weakness for dark chocolate (greater than 86%). I say it's my kryptonite. All we can do is give a full measure of effort each day and not beat ourselves up if we choose the chocolate on occasion.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 02:47:42 GMT

That's not proven, but thanks for trying. I started swimming at 31 years old. At 5'5", I'm not Janet Evans. Though I did compete in the Junior Olympics for cross country 3 years in a row until our program was scrubbed due to lack of funding.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 02:05:55 GMT

It's not a fact and can be disputed. The studies that have been completed were skewed.

For example:

In 1920's - Vilhjalmur Stefansson, a vegetarian explorer, became stranded when his ship wrecked. Living among the Inuit Tribe of Canada. He had to eat a carnivore diet. When he got back, he allowed scientists to monitor him for a year. Not only did his gingivitis go away but he said he'd never felt better in his life.

In 1958, the Ancel Keyes 7 country study was actually 22 countries. He cherry picked the countries that went with his narrative.

In 1958, the Framingham studied showed that dietary cholesterol didn't cause heart disease. The results were suppressed. The sugar industry paid 3 Harvard researchers to lie and say fat was the problem.

The studies that show potential correlation but not causation are observational studies where participants are given a questionnaire to show what they have eaten in a time frame, anywhere from 3-months to a year. The questionnaire considers a "hamburger" bun and all as "meat". They count lasagna as "meat". While they both contain "meat" the real issue is the other ingredients.

As for longevity, that's quite a leap to say that more meat and dairy the shorter the life. Observational studies cannot account for confounders. For example, people that consume meat also consume alcohol, smoke, and exercise less than their plant eating counterparts (or so the studies suggest).

Boston University Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine and Tufts Medical Center - According to the researchers, when people are exposed to infections and recover from them, their immune system learns to adapt, but this ability to respond declines as we age. “The immune profiles that we observed in the centenarians confirms a long history of exposure to infections and capacity to recover from them and provide support to the hypothesis that centenarians are enriched for protective factors that increase their ability to recover from infections,” said senior author Paola Sebastiani, PhD, director, Center for Quantitative Methods and Data Science, Institute for Clinical Research and Health Policy Studies at Tufts Medical Center. This was a study on centenarians, people that reached and passed 100 years of age.

72% of centenarians live in rural areas, which researchers believe aids in their longevity. They also report quality sleep. Many live in care facilities, so it's difficult to say their nutrition is helpful or not because they eat what they are given, a mixed diet.

So, while I'm sure I won't change your mind. you are incorrect in your conclusion that the "Facts" are truthful and accurate. I encourage you to do your research and actually read the studies, not just the abstract.

For those that want to hear this type of information from someone other than me, I encourage you to check out Dr. Anthony Chaffee, Dr. Shawn Baker, Dr. Phil Ovadia, Dr. Ken Berry. I'm a certified Ketogenic/Carnivore nutrition coach.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Allen Stark — Thu, 02 Jan 2025 23:04:28 GMT

I think we are mostly in agreement. The human GI tract is definitely not herbivore and B12 must be gotten some how. I personally am fairly carnivore (chicken, fish, grass fed beef etc.) with vegetables and fruit. I have tried to go off processed food and sweets as much as possible, but I do eat a little dark chocolate regularly.

I went off gluten a few years ago and lost 10 lb from my midsection in 6 mo. I was not trying to lose weight and didn't think I needed to until I saw the change. If I "slip" and eat sweets my arthritis gets worse.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Erik Hochstein — Thu, 02 Jan 2025 19:28:01 GMT

My goal is a longer healthier life and we have the lead in that just like I have the lead in the pool :)

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Erik Hochstein — Thu, 02 Jan 2025 19:27:00 GMT

Yes fascinating - but what diet shows the longest healthiest life ? The more meat and dairy the shorter the life and lower the healthy life span - thats a fact - can't dispute that ....

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:51:21 GMT

I disagree, in part. Yes, the factory foods definitely play a role in our ill health. The excessive consumption of sugar definitely plays a role as well. The reduction in meat consumption also plays a role. The most nutrient dense food on the planet is beef liver, next to that is beef.

Yes, intermittent fasting can also be beneficial. On average, I consume 2 meals per day within a 6-hour window. The rest of the time I'm fasting. If we are constantly consuming food, we are not giving our bodies time to clean house. I saw research that stated cancer takes 7 years to grow, so I'm doing my best to keep my house free and clear of damaged, old, broken-down cells.

I disagree that WFPB is healthy. There isn't a stitch of B12 in vegetables, so supplementation is necessary. If you have to supplement, it's not the optimum diet. Scroll YouTube and you'll see heartbreaking stories of people that were vegan (sick) and went to a strictly carnivore diet (healthy). If you have seen a video going the other way, I would love to see it.

Yes, I'm a huge proponent of exercise. God didn't design us to be sedentary for 15+ hours per day. We are designed to move. I believe big food/big pharma wants us like the characters in Wall-E.

We can agree to disagree and that is totally fine. My goal is to help people lead a healthier life and get out of the Matrix and lies we have been told about nutrition for the past 100+ years.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

06KWC — Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:42:04 GMT

I find your reply fascinating.

Over the past 100+ years, the consumption of meat has decreased, seed oil consumption was introduced, and plant-based (vegan/vegetarian) was shoved down our throats as the healthier option, while EVERY disease has increased exponentially. We are animals, and every group of animals has an optimum way of eating. For us and our intestinal system, that is animal products. Yes, God made our bodies a miracle and able to withstand products we shouldn't consume on a regular basis.

In 1942, researchers proved that cancer feeds on sugar. So, it makes sense to reduce your sugar intake and avoid cancer. ALL carbohydrates turn to sugar in the body. It is estimated that 85% of vegans must reintroduce animal products back into their diet because of health issues. In 1958, the Framingham study showed that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease and postulated that the culprit was sugar. The sugar industry paid 3 Harvard Researchers to say fat was the issue. Sugar consumption doesn't rear its ugly head after a short time, it takes decades for the damage to show. This is why the sugar industry can get away with the amount of sugar they put in food and drinks, it won't kill you right off.

The Blue Zone documentary is a load of crap. They don't mention that those countries eat fish, pig, and chicken as well as lamb. One village that was visited in Italy cooks up a lamb feast every day, but somehow, they don't consume meat. Maybe the term meat needs to be clearly defined - animal muscle. Another study showed that the people becoming Centenarians had low blood sugar and high cholesterol, meaning meat eaters.

Whole food plant-based is one of the great lies of our times. I do believe it started with Ellen G White from the Seventh-Day Adventist church. She believed God won't return until we are vegan/vegetarian. Her scribe was Kellogg, between him and Post, they started us down this road of ill health. To get the nutrition in a 4oz steak, you would need to consume 3 cups of beans and rice. Kale is promoted as a super-food, yet the K1 is not what we need, we need K2 and our bodies are awful at converting it. The iron in spinach is only 10-12% absorbable, so most goes out as waste. Vegetables are digested in the large intestines, that bloating and gas people experience is from the vegetables rooting in the colon. Meat is digested in the small intestines.

The LDL Cholesterol myth was debunked 50+ years ago. A UCLA Health study looked at hospital admissions for heart issues from 2000 - 2006. 72% of those admitted had a cholesterol less than 130. The greater issue is your Triglyceride to HDL ratio. That should be below 2. The leading causes of heart disease by hazard ratio are Type 2 diabetes (10.71), metabolic syndrome (6.09), hypertension (4.58), and Lipoprotein insulin resistance (6.4). LDL cholesterol hazard ratio is 1.38. (According to Open Heart 2021). Another good measure is a CAC (Coronary Artery Calcium) score and/or a Carotid Intima-Meida Thickness (CIMT) Test. I would recommend both to anyone over 40.

I take lab results with a grain of salt because each lab can determine their own range. It is based off the population in the area of the lab.

So, with that being said ... you do you boo! I have seen what WFPB does to people's health, no way I would recommend that as nutrition coach.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Allen Stark — Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:23:05 GMT

This is a "stop, you're both right" situation. I am not an expert in diet and longevity, but my wife, Carol Stark MD is and I have gotten information from her. The biggest problems with the modern American diet are too much processed foods and too much sugar, not too much or too little meat, except that many of our meat sources are overly processed and fat from grain fed animals is too high in the bad lipids (which is not true of grass fed..) The Inuits, on their traditional diet, which is all meat and mostly fat, are very healthy. The ketogenic diet is recommended for cancer patients as most cancers require sugar to grow and so very low carbs, no sugar, no cancer. Also with the ketogenic diet intermittent fasting is much easier and even fasting 12 hr increases autophagy which is the bodies way of getting rid of cells that aren't functioning and replacing poorly functioning mitochondria with new ones. Also, not eating 4 hr before sleeping increases the functioning of the glymphatic system which cleans up the detritus form the brain. The problem with the ketogenic diet is that in is hard to start as you are getting your body to go from mostly using sugars for fuel to mostly using ketones for fuel. Many people feel bad during the transition. This is the so called "Keto flu". Once you are in ketosis you are fine. but if the temptation to eat sweets or carbs is too much and you "slip", you have to start over. Also ketones work great for distance events, but it is likely carbs are better for sprints.

The WFPB diet can also be very healthy, depending on the whole foods. Some grains, especially wheat, and some legumes. can be high in lectins which can be bad for some people and problematic for others.

Some people believe that the most helpful part of the Mediterranean diet is the extensive use of olive oil. Non-inflammatory oils are clearly healthy, but most seed based oils are inflammatory.

Diet is very important for longevity and improved cognition as you age, both of these diets can be very healthy and lead to good lipid numbers.

It is important to mention that the best single thing to do to improve longevity, cognition and mood is EXERCISE and according to at least one study the best exercise is SWIMMING.

RE: Low-carb (ketogenic) eating and swimming

Erik Hochstein — Sat, 28 Dec 2024 22:54:51 GMT

Good to believe in something - but I think you are totally wrong and the data I know does too -- our body is incredibly adoptable so that is no proof at all - I am one of the fastest 50 and 100F swimmer 50+ in the country - so does that mean my diet is best ??? There are centenarian smokers out there - does that mean I should smoke ??

1) I can not base research on one item - the entire diet and what I "substitute" for what is most important - the body will adopt to sooo many things but cancer and many things that will "get us" towards the end of our lives develop your entire life.

2) who lives the longest healthiest life in the world - the opposite of ketogenic diets. Blue Zones / China study ... I looked at Seventh Day adventist - the more meat and animal protein the shorter their lives -- healthiest longest lives - vegan whole food plant based,,, the clock and the numbers do not lie

3) Quality protein and protein obsession - this is complete industry manipulation - its simple to get enough protein with a WFPB diet - whole food plant based ... so because the protein in meat is higher "quality" I should be ok with all the side effects ... diabetes, heart disease, cancer -- shorter life

You ask for a 90 day test - ok - take your blood markers now - like LDL ... how high is it now ??? - and show them to 3 neutral docs - then do a true 90 days WFPB diet - take blood markers and health check then .... my results were soooooooo much better - LDL at 65 ... we all have our own body but the numbers just do not lie