PEDs

RE: PEDs

orca1946 — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 11:55:42 GMT

Does a cortisone shot add a layer of question to my eligibility?

RE: PEDs

smiley92407 — Fri, 05 Jul 2019 12:47:47 GMT

I must be the only one who is taking performance reducing drugs. I am 60 and have hypertension (under control and swimming helps), and PTSD for the past 3.5 years. I am also taking a muscle relaxer just so I don't get muscle spasms like the one that hit me in Mesa and I could not swim my last 4 events. I have to take meds that make me feel dopey and can make me zone out at times just so I can function in my new normal. The only good part is that I started swimming again 4 years ago and I am still getting in shape after a 34 year absence from the pool. So if you were to look at my times for the past 3 years, they are getting faster, but with the meds, I still feel slow. I don't think my situation fits the description of someone taking PEDs. But I feel if that if I got off the meds, my performances would likely improve even more.

RE: PEDs

knelson — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:05:35 GMT

So does Botox count? Makes me LOOK younger, anyway! Of course. Wrinkles add drag! :)

RE: PEDs

Former Member — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:14:24 GMT

I just don't believe people in their sixties and seventies can be swimming times that show little or no decline over decades. In general, you can expect to see a decline in peak VO2 of 10% per decade. That having been said, the rate of decline can be attenuated to some degree through training.

RE: PEDs

orca1946 — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:57:58 GMT

As I turned 73 before Mesa, I had a tough season leading up to this meet. I was really down on myself for getting slower despite all my miles at swim practice and the 8 hours each week at the gym! A long talk with myself lead me to try to accept "aging slow down". I take all the above related meds except low t? as needed to keep my 5 hip surgeries in check. Older, over weight, slowly balding 73 year old middle of the road Illinois State Univ. swimmer that I am, won 6 medals In 6 events at mesa with slower times than last year! Yes - I take meds to make it to next year not to gain any advantage.

RE: PEDs

Celestial — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 07:41:54 GMT

So does Botox count? Makes me LOOK younger, anyway!

RE: PEDs

Former Member — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 13:22:53 GMT

RE: PEDs

sickfish — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 08:31:18 GMT

I don't understand it therefore drugs

RE: PEDs

Former Member — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 08:22:29 GMT

Hi Elaine, well anything is possible but generally the folks I see with times that fall off the curve aren't people who started swimming and with good coaching and practice improved. They are generally people who have been around the sport for years and have been at the top of their age groups for a long time. A lot of these people haven't gotten faster but simply have not slowed down as much as other people in their age groups have. I guess you have to ask yourself what's the most likely explanation for this. I just don't believe people in their sixties and seventies can be swimming times that show little or no decline over decades.

RE: PEDs

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 05:56:00 GMT

RE: PEDs

Elaine Krugman — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 01:36:03 GMT

I think doping is for dopes but it is occurring. My guess is its more prevalent in the older age groups. It's a small minority but really needs to be addressed. I'm a guy who is lucky to finish in the top 50 in any given event. Who cares if I do dope, the focus should be on the top of each age group. In my age group I see some people with suspicious times. People in their 70's swimming faster than 10 years ago, people 65 swimming distance events as fast as they did in college. There's a page on this website called age grading www.usms.org/.../age-grading, I think it's pretty accurate in showing moderate but clear decline in performance as we age. One of the best swimmers in my opinion in masters and who has been around a long time is Jim Mc Conica. If you look at his swims over time you see the steady decline in performance that you would expect from aging. Some folks do not show the expected declines in performance and these are the folks I would be concerned with. :wave:Hi, Stan! It's Elaine Krugman, here. I missed you at the Spring Splash! Since I had never seen "humpday" on the Forums and saw that you were from Georgia, I checked out your profile. Ha! I know that guy!! I even wrote a Swimmer Profile feature on him for the Georgia Masters Newsletter! Anyway, back to business, you brought up a valid point about the expected decline of aging swimmers. The only thing I can think of if an older doesn't decline is if they got some good coaching and improved their stroke technique and/or if they are training better than in their younger years. Otherwise, what gives? :dunno:

RE: PEDs

Former Member — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 16:07:54 GMT

Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.” Actually there is a high prevalence of airway dysfunction among elite swimmers.

RE: PEDs

sickfish — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:21:11 GMT

Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.” /eyeroll That statement is so vague it doesn't mean anything. It's just spreading uncertainty. Trolling, basically. Do you have stats? Are you saying people are faking asthma to cheat? How many is "a lot"? What counts as "elite"? Care to name names?

RE: PEDs

swoomer — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 08:13:04 GMT

Drugs are bad, mkay? Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.”

RE: PEDs

sickfish — Fri, 24 May 2019 08:38:40 GMT

RE: PEDs

Jeff Enge — Fri, 24 May 2019 08:33:20 GMT

A few years ago I petitioned USMS leadership to issue a simple statement discouraging the use of performance enhancing drugs, knowing that a formal drug testing program would never be instituted due to a lack of support within the organization. I was rebuffed. The membership body of USMS is way too... free-form?... of a group of people for that to ever work. I mean, you don't even have to qualify for the biggest meet the organization puts on. Like everything in the pharmaceutical industry: drugs created in search of a non-existent disease. America is a country of hypochondriacs, and in that context aging is a disease with no cure... Kind of a cynical view of life that I don't subscribe to!

RE: PEDs

Jeff Enge — Fri, 24 May 2019 03:56:28 GMT

Come work with me in the ER for a day (or 25 years like me)...then you'll start subscribing....:) Well, I mean, obviously in an existential sense that's what life leads to... but if you go around treating it as such, you'll spend more effort on that than actually, you know, getting s*** done!

RE: PEDs

Kurt Dickson — Fri, 24 May 2019 02:29:51 GMT

a cynical view of life that I don't subscribe to! Come work with me in the ER for a day (or 25 years like me)...then you'll start subscribing....:)

RE: PEDs

Former Member — Thu, 23 May 2019 16:53:08 GMT

The term "Low T" was coined by Solvay Pharmaceuticals to market AndroGel, and it was a tremendous success. A few years ago I petitioned USMS leadership to issue a simple statement discouraging the use of performance enhancing drugs, knowing that a formal drug testing program would never be instituted due to a lack of support within the organization. I was rebuffed.

RE: PEDs

Kurt Dickson — Thu, 23 May 2019 02:10:11 GMT

The term "Low T" was coined by Solvay Pharmaceuticals to market AndroGel, and it was a tremendous success. Like everything in the pharmaceutical industry: drugs created in search of a non-existent disease.

RE: PEDs

knelson — Fri, 17 May 2019 03:44:07 GMT

I absolutely agree that testosterone is a PED. What I don't agree with is that it should be lumped in with other drugs that are used to treat very common and health-threatening conditions like statins and beta blockers.

RE: PEDs

Windrath — Fri, 17 May 2019 03:37:39 GMT

Not sure why you would not include testosterone if you read about the benefits to energy levels and it used to be used by women and cyclists as a PED - before the current batch of designer PEDs. I had mine measured a few years back. It came back at around 500 (whatever the units were) and the normal range is 500-1500 for my age. So, if 500 is my "natural" level and the range is up to 1500, taking enough to increase my T might result in a substantial increase in performance without tripping the max level. Granted, not anything like HGH, but could be significant. And, another one I have personal experience with is taking Iron. I have been chronically anemic for the past 15 yrs (no medical reason has been found). if I don't take iron, my hemoglobin drops to about 80% of the accepted minimum and I can't swim hard (feels like having a heart attack after 75 yards or being at 12,000' elevation). if I take iron and my hemoglobin goes to the middle of the acceptable range, I am good to go like when I was younger. For me, taking iron is like a transfusion of high hemoglobin blood (which Lochte and others have been sanctioned for). So, these may seem like minor things, but they are very significant enhancements. It is a slippery slope as we get older. We probably can all agree that HGH (like used by Cenegenics) is an obvious PED. But, the rest - not so easy to see the black/white....

RE: PEDs

Kurt Dickson — Thu, 16 May 2019 10:52:22 GMT

I wouldn't group "low T" in with the rest of these. Thank you. True hypogonadism is extremely rare and so if you are taking testosterone and competing, you are most likely, cheating.

RE: PEDs

skiboy58 — Thu, 16 May 2019 02:00:37 GMT

I am about to turn 61. I consider that I am improving if my times stay the same, as muscle mass drops off after 40 and preciptiously from 60-65. I take a bunch of meds for mild hypertension, type-II diabetes (although swimming has pretty much put my blood sugar numbers back in the high normal range...5.5-ish), and exercise-induced asthma. I seriously doubt any of these subtract seconds from my times...maybe hundredths, if I'm lucky. One thing I'd add is that there are now so many legal supplements that enhance performance...I'm thinking of NO boosters like carnitine, arginine, ornithine...even Viagra and Cialis! And caffeine is performance enhancing. Protein powders, of course. None of these can take the place of training, however. I think they all might give an edge to the person who is already working very hard, but they won't help pikers. Most importantly, I don't think ANY of these come close to having the same effect as HGH (for low-T or otherwise) or worse, anabolic steroids. Perhaps we should test for those just those things, but only at big meets and following record swims. Not sure what kind of penalties you'd dole out if someone failed. That could definitely be a "can of worms."

RE: PEDs

knelson — Wed, 15 May 2019 12:57:24 GMT

Well, of course there are USMS members using PEDs. It is called "getting older" meds like Testosterone for low T, statins for high cholesterol, beta blockers for heart issues, Pradaxa to prevent blood clots, etc. I wouldn't group "low T" in with the rest of these.