Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:37:01 GMT

I think a decent compromise would be to say you've got to make both NQTs in order to swim both events. You could still swim one or the other without making the cuts. I think that was how things were handled at Mission Viejo and I personally think it worked out well, though I didn't realize how hard it was to staff those late sessions. And Jeff mentioned it is unlikely that this will be an option this year because of only one competition pool and the extremely high number of swimmers expected. At Misison Viejo, yes the meet went a little late on Wednesday (1500 day) and Friday (800 day), but part of the reason for the very late day on Friday was the extremely unfortunate event that added about an hour to the timeline. Swimming at 7pm or 8pm isn't ideal, but assuming getting staff was possible, I'd prefer to have the option of swimming both the 1500 and 800 over not swimming one of them at all.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

orca1946 — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 03:40:34 GMT

I don't think you should be able to swim both if no NQT times are made.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

knelson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 03:57:59 GMT

That's a very good point Allen. I hadn't really thought about it from the perspective of someone who likes swimming distance events, but is not able to make NQTs. I think a decent compromise would be to say you've got to make both NQTs in order to swim both events. You could still swim one or the other without making the cuts.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 02:08:48 GMT

I don't have a solution,but I don't think both the 1500 and 800 should be NQT only events.If one prefers distance free events,but is not able to make NQTs ,should that person have none of there favorite events to swim? That's a very good point Allen. I hadn't really thought about it from the perspective of someone who likes swimming distance events, but is not able to make NQTs.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 11:23:09 GMT

I would much rather do so at a National meet, than some other meet that would have me swimming 6 events in 3 hours. That's a very good point jpetyk. But it seems that in most cases, there is only one (maybe two) distance event offered at any local Masters meet. And if someone really wants to get a good time in their distance event, they won't be swimming 5 other events. Seems to me that saving those 5 other events for nationals and swimming the distance event at the local meet would make the most sense.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jpetyk — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:43:27 GMT

People without NQTs can probably find events other than nationals at which to compete in those two distance events. . Some parts of the country are very active and have many Masters meets. Others, are not. If I am going to have to travel, pay for hotels, etc., I would much rather do so at a National meet, than some other meet that would have me swimming 6 events in 3 hours. I agree that it stinks that distance swimmers have to choose between one event or the other, but for some of us, the Nationals events are the only option to compete.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

knelson — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 05:23:38 GMT

The way I look at it is, if you swim the 1500, you've automatically got an 800 swim thrown in for good measure! Really I've never thought it was a huge deal when swimmers need to pick one or the other of the distance events (but I can understand why some would). The scheduling of all the events means lots of people have to sacrifice one event in favor of another due to being back-to-back, etc. I guess the difference is they still have the option to swim both. They just might choose not to due to scheduling.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Allen Stark — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 02:28:56 GMT

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jroddin — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:20:01 GMT

Thanks for the reply Jeff. I completely understand about the staffing. And also the conditions for competition; yes, swimming at 10pm really wasn't ideal, but it's better than not swimming at all! Really the 1500 and 800 are the only events in which I'm somewhat competitive. The 400 is marginal and the 200 is tough. Eliminating one of those as an option really stinks. Perhaps some sort of contingency could be made like in Mission Viejo, only more strict, for the distance events? Such as having NQTs for both events? Or perhaps staffing late for those events should be considered when awarding nationals to bidders? Having the ability to swim both events at nationals really makes all the difference for someone like me. It was discussed to limit participation in the 800 and 1500 to only those who make NQTs in both in order to allow swimmers to enter both, however, that is not permitted in the USMS rulebook so the idea was dismissed. It is very difficult finding bidders, let alone finding bidders with 10 lane pools, multiple competition courses, excess staffing resources, etc. For this particular Nationals we are fortunate the host is able to accommodate a 5-day format. Masters Nationals is unique in its ability to accommodate all swimmers (anybody may swim up to 3 events plus 4 relays without meeting qual times). It is unfortunate for some Nationals that swimmers may not swim both distance events, but on the other hand if the meet were more exclusive there would be many others who wouldn't get to swim any events at all. Reasonable people may disagree on the all-inclusive policy but that is the present system. Jeff

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 02:26:30 GMT

I very much like the fact that USMS is so inclusive, so I'd really not like to see that change. But on the other hand, as I have seen mentioned somewhere, nationals is a once-a-year event in which people have a chance to swim against strong competition. Perhaps still allowing 3 events and 4 relays without NQTs but require NQTs for both the 800 and 1500 should be considered if it allows for distance specialists to enter both events? I am guessing it is challenging to make changes to the USMS rulebook? People without NQTs can probably find events other than nationals at which to compete in those two distance events. I really don't want to make the meet too exclusive, but as a distance swimmer, it really does stink to have one of three events (1500, 800 and 400 are the only "distance" events) eliminated. I didn't realize that finding bidders to accommodate nationals was such a challenge. That certainly would rule out imposing additional requirements on bidders.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

orca1946 — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:35:31 GMT

Thanx Jay. That makes good sense using different events. I did not even think of that. Now I need to get healthy to try for Q times.!

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jroddin — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:43:01 GMT

Thanks for posting the order of events Jeff! Since the 1500 and 800 are on separate days, does that mean swimmers can do both events like in Mission Viejo? It's really unfortunate for us distance swimmers to have to sacrifice one of our events at nationals when there are really only 3 events (400, 800 and 1500) in which we're competitive! That option will be highly unlikely only having a single 8 lane competition course and a meet expected to be even larger than Mission Viejo. In Mission Viejo the finish time on Wednesday (1500 day) was 10:10pm and the finish time on Friday (800 day) was 7:22pm. Those session lengths are very difficult to staff while also not really being good conditions for competition for the swimmers. Jeff

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:28:42 GMT

That option will be highly unlikely only having a single 8 lane competition course and a meet expected to be even larger than Mission Viejo. In Mission Viejo the finish time on Wednesday (1500 day) was 10:10pm and the finish time on Friday (800 day) was 7:22pm. Those session lengths are very difficult to staff while also not really being good conditions for competition for the swimmers. Jeff Thanks for the reply Jeff. I completely understand about the staffing. And also the conditions for competition; yes, swimming at 10pm really wasn't ideal, but it's better than not swimming at all! Really the 1500 and 800 are the only events in which I'm somewhat competitive. The 400 is marginal and the 200 is tough. Eliminating one of those as an option really stinks. Perhaps some sort of contingency could be made like in Mission Viejo, only more strict, for the distance events? Such as having NQTs for both events? Or perhaps staffing late for those events should be considered when awarding nationals to bidders? Having the ability to swim both events at nationals really makes all the difference for someone like me.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

mmlr38 — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 01:24:34 GMT

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Former Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 07:11:34 GMT

women's 400 IM free inside. I hope that clarify things. Not really. Is the women's 400 IM free a new event? Does this mean that women don't have to pay for swimming the 400 IM inside? Please clarify this for the men.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jroddin — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 02:44:44 GMT

# pools? I have never seen that. It must run the meet really fast. What do you do with odd heat numbers, start them 1st. so that you can end up with 3 pools in the last running? They wouldn't be running 3 courses of the same event at the same time. They would likely have two courses of the same event in one 50m pool while having one course of a different event in another pool. For instance, two courses of the men's 500 free outside with one course of the women's 400 IM inside. I hope that clarify things.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

orca1946 — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 02:12:34 GMT

I like this order for my events - if I get the Q times???

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jroddin — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:29:53 GMT

The order of events for 2014 Marriott USMS Summer Nationals in College Park, Maryland is listed below. NQTs will be available close to the New Year. Day 1 Wednesday: Mixed 1500 freestyle Day 2 Thursday: 200 butterfly 50 breaststroke 100 freestyle Mixed 800 freestyle Day 3 Friday: 400 IM 30 minute break 50 backstroke 200 freestyle 100 breaststroke 200 freestyle relays Day 4 Saturday 100 butterfly 50 freestyle 200 backstroke 200 mixed free relay 200 mixed medley relay 400 freestyle (both) Day 5 Sunday 200 medley relays 100 backstroke 200 IM 50 butterfly 200 breaststroke Jeff Roddin USMS Championship Committee

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

orca1946 — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 02:48:59 GMT

# pools? I have never seen that. It must run the meet really fast. What do you do with odd heat numbers, start them 1st. so that you can end up with 3 pools in the last running?

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Coach Susan — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 07:37:54 GMT

As to the 2015 San Antonio Spring Nationals, we plan on a 4 day format. We still need the Championship Committee's approval of our Order of Events, but it will closely follow what was set forth in the Rule Book. There will be a slight change because, we will use 3 pools at the same time, we are able to offer the 1000 and 1650 on separate days. More details will be presented next year.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

jroddin — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:54:24 GMT

Any word on the 5-day schedule? There's a few longer events I'd like to try depending how close they are to backstroke events, and training starts soon. The Rules Committee needs to ratify the Order of Events for Maryland (special 5-day format). We expect an answer sometime next week. I will post here once it is official. Jeff Roddin USMS Championship Committee

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Former Member — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:21:30 GMT

Any word on the 5-day schedule? There's a few longer events I'd like to try depending how close they are to backstroke events, and training starts soon.

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Britt03 — Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:24:37 GMT

I also like outdoor meets even though I am a backstroker. Heck, if you know how to swim straight then it give you an advantage over those other wusses. For me one of the main joys of being a backstroker is when you get to swim outdoors, it is the only stroke that allows you to really appreciate being outside. swimming outdoors as a backstroker = perfect stomach tan time. My first outdoor practice this season, I swam 4,500 yards backstroke. yep, all backstroke. I wanted to get my stomach a good base tan. Who cares about practice if you can focus on getting tan?? :banana:

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Elaine Krugman — Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:30:16 GMT

if the meet is outdoors - sign me up! so much more fun swimming outdoors than indoors! That's because you aren't a backstroker like Wookiee!

RE: Nationals - 2014 & 2015 dates

Britt03 — Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:25:56 GMT

if the meet is outdoors - sign me up! so much more fun swimming outdoors than indoors!