2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

orca1946 — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 11:50:26 GMT

You cannot out rule jerkness ! Whatever we do to be nice, others will say I need speed to warm up & you are in my way! Have you ever see people leave the parking lot AFTER church ???!!! :bolt:

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Former Member — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:21:03 GMT

I was never fast enought to swim at the Olynpic Trials, but I did swim in some big AAU and college events. Warm up and warm down problems are a part of the experience. It sucks. In AAU meets (like masters) it was a "deal with it" experience. Coaches might be able to swarm a lane or two with the team but that's not too effective, and kind of rude. In college, coaches worked together (slightly) to afford time for teams to warm up. Warm downs weren't that much of a problem, for me. I do not support schedules in the warm-up pool. I'ts tough but that is a part of the game. Tell us you fast swimmers out there, how were warm ups and warm downs controlled at the trials, DIV I NCAA and the Big Dance? Only had NCAA DIV 1 experience and I have to tell you my experience in the 80's was nothing like what I'm hearing in this thread. I just started swimming again (3 months ago) so I absolutely can't comment about current experience. Back in the 80's there just never seemed to be a problem. Your team would be assigned a lane or two depending on the type of meet and you warmed up as a team.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

knelson — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:41:23 GMT

I am looking forward to Mesa. Me too! Sounds like a great setup for fast swimming.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Paul Smith — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 02:03:24 GMT

Details to follow...however we do have the Saturday social sponsored by Coors/MGD and Outback Steakhouse on the golf course with a band locked in. Thursday looks like we have a social at Toby Keith's: http://www.tobykeith.com/mesa/ Casino night? Working on some stuff for a Diamondbacks game oh...and the pool and Saguaro Lake are pretty nice to: www.saguarolakemarina.com/

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Betsy — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:41:44 GMT

I am looking forward to Mesa. The earlier date should ensure better temperatures than the meets in Tempe. Since meet hosts usually provide ample shade, the sun should not be a problem. This time I hope to stay a few days in Arizona and do some sightseeing.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Former Member — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:45:12 GMT

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

pwolf66 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:57:04 GMT

I don't understand why people have a problem with the GA Tech pool. I have swam in that pool. The pool is fast. The pool is deep, with the over flow gutters. The water is cool and very clear. The lighting for the facility is great. I just don't get why people think it isn't a good pool. Well I didn't say it wasn't good pool, I just ranked it at the bottom of the pools where I have attended SCY nationals. Trust me, I've swam in pools that I would call 'not good'. But it seemed, at least for me, that it lost some of it's lustre when set up SCY. The issues I had: 1 - turbulence created a lot of small buddles that did not clear very fast creating visibility issues 2 - Bulkhead was a real challenge for me, especially on the course near the scoreboard. On that course I missed all three flip turns (50 and both in the 100). Sure others didn't have problems but this is my opinion, so I can only put it in the frame of reference of me. I have swam at quite a few pools with bulkheads and this one gave me the most trouble by a huge margin. But hey, that's life. Would I swim there again? Heck yeah. Is it, in my opinion, the 3rd best pool for SCY Nats in my experience? Yup.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Jim Clemmons — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:52:28 GMT

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Jim Clemmons — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:48:20 GMT

"Lost" would be one way of describing the last year...proud to say we've been overseeing a masters team that went from 6 to over 150 (and our women just broke the national record in the LCM 200 medley with a 2:03!) and age group program of over 300 (95% of team finished season with best times, 16 sectional qualifiers, 1 JO cut and 1 national cut)...priorities have changed but I'm "making my comeback" as I have a coney dog bet with a 16 year old in the 50 free coming up in 3 weeks! Doesn't sound like "Lost" to me. Sounds more like "Empire Building" - in a good sense. I'm sure you weren't totally "out of it", anyway. :chug:

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

pwolf66 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:43:04 GMT

I suppose the pool was only good enough for the Olympics but not for masters Nationals. :confused: Not sure what you are trying to say here but it sure looks like you are saying that his opinion is wrong, which is impossible because it's his opinion. :confused: :confused: :confused:

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

jroddin — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:37:18 GMT

Better than Clovis? Wow, guess I need to get my butt in the pool and starting training as I loved the tank at Clovis. Last 3 SCY Nats are for me: Atlanta - just didn't care for the pool at all. I suppose the pool was only good enough for the Olympics but not for masters Nationals. :confused:

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

pwolf66 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:45:31 GMT

As far as the pool itself for racing: better than Clovis, much better than Atlanta, and I can't be objective about Austin, a sentimental favorite of mine Better than Clovis? Wow, guess I need to get my butt in the pool and starting training as I loved the tank at Clovis. Last 3 SCY Nats are for me: 1 - Clovis - loved this tank 2 - Austin - UT - enough said 3 - Atlanta - just didn't care for the pool at all.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Paul Smith — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:43:10 GMT

As for Mesa, I think -- PAUL SMITH, please clarify -- that we'll be swimming widthwise, which means real walls on both courses and no bulkheads. I much prefer racing into walls and not bulkheads, part of the reason why I ranked Clovis over Atlanta, even though I swam faster in Atlanta on a same event basis. You are correct PWB...2 x 9 lane courses running from east to west with the bulkhead separating the two. Which means flo-over gutters at the start/turn ends, one full open lane on the outside of each course, the "outside" lanes that will be next to the bulkhead have a lane line and about a 2' of a gap before the bulkhead (which is "flo-threw" design so will absorb a lot of the turbulence. Very fast set-up.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:13:43 GMT

My read having been to the last few Nationals on warmup space only: WAY, way better than Atlanta or Austin, not as good as Clovis Paul, it would still be good to have other options for people if they are available.As far as the pool itself for racing: better than Clovis, much better than Atlanta, and I can't be objective about Austin, a sentimental favorite of mine

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:11:44 GMT

Well I didn't say it wasn't good pool, I just ranked it at the bottom of the pools where I have attended SCY nationals... 1 - turbulence created a lot of small buddles that did not clear very fast creating visibility issues 2 - Bulkhead was a real challenge for me, especially on the course near the scoreboard... I'm with you on both points about Atlanta. It was a fine enough pool, but I just think there are better pools. As for Mesa, I think -- PAUL SMITH, please clarify -- that we'll be swimming widthwise, which means real walls on both courses and no bulkheads. I much prefer racing into walls and not bulkheads, part of the reason why I ranked Clovis over Atlanta, even though I swam faster in Atlanta on a same event basis. ...Another problem that I had in Austin and Atlanta is with breathing. Betsy, Mesa is outdoors, so that won't be a problem. You'll have other issues to deal with -- SUN! -- but the air should be good.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Patrick W. Brundage — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:08:11 GMT

Jim....we will have 13 lanes for warm-up. My read having been to the last few Nationals on warmup space only: WAY, way better than Atlanta or Austin, not as good as Clovis Paul, it would still be good to have other options for people if they are available.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

pwolf66 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:07:54 GMT

We don't want to limit entries any more, but how many swimmers can the facility handle for warm-ups? Betsy, that is an excellent point and one not only for Masters' meets but for all swim meets. In PVS, we have had serious issues with air quality because of extremely crowded conditions as meets get more and more participants. It's one of the hidden consquences of continuing to grow participation in a sport without increasing the size and quantity of facilities to support this growth.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Betsy — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:01:57 GMT

I thought the warm-up facilities at Clovis were super - nothing like a 50 m pool just for warm-up. I found both Austin and Atlanta to be difficult to get a good warm-up due to the number of participants. Very few venues can accomodate 1800-1900 swimmers trying to warm-up. Another problem that I had in Austin and Atlanta is with breathing. I was fine the first 3 days, but the last day was a problem. I talked it over with the Aquatic Director at local pools. She says the air handlers were never designed to work for some many people in the pool and in the pool area. The chemicals churned up by so many swimmers are never completely cleared and get a little worse each day. I have asthma so am more sensitive that many people. Savannah was bad also. I have found that I can't hang around the pool all day to watch my friends and team; I need to get out of the environment for awhile. It's a real problem for the championship committee and future hosts. We don't want to limit entries any more, but how many swimmers can the facility handle for warm-ups?

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Paul Smith — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:52:17 GMT

Jim....we will have 13 lanes for warm-up. "Lost" would be one way of describing the last year...proud to say we've been overseeing a masters team that went from 6 to over 150 (and our women just broke the national record in the LCM 200 medley with a 2:03!) and age group program of over 300 (95% of team finished season with best times, 16 sectional qualifiers, 1 JO cut and 1 national cut)...priorities have changed but I'm "making my comeback" as I have a coney dog bet with a 16 year old in the 5o free coming up in 3 weeks!

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Jim Clemmons — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:52:48 GMT

Sadly a problem that will always exist, we may be able to put a Band-Aid on it so to speak but bottom line is there are very good solutions. Something Laura and I have done at almost every nationals we have attended is warm-up off-site...so here's an informal poll, we have multiple pools near the Kino facility that we could potentially open up in the mornings when conditions are at their worst...would anyone be interested in something like that? Do you really think it'll be necessary? I thought Kino's set up something similar to Clovis but after looking at the satellite view, I was obviously wrong. Must be CRS. Yes, offsite options would be of interest. Hey, nice to see you back. Didja get lost?

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

swim53 — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:45:20 GMT

Absolutely!:applaud:

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Paul Smith — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:24:45 GMT

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Bobinator — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:00:44 GMT

I may be wrong but during warm-ups I assume the middle lanes are generally for the fastest swimmers and each outgoing lane is a bit slower pace, sort of a pyramid seeding pattern. This assumption normally works for me just fine. I did not go to the Atlanta meet; maybe this meet was just an unusual group of competitors.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

Former Member — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:49:22 GMT

I agree Bill, Austin was terrible.

RE: 2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

gdanner — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 01:08:28 GMT

Tell us you fast swimmers out there, how were warm ups and warm downs controlled at the trials, DIV I NCAA and the Big Dance? I haven't been to those meets, but I've swum at USA Nationals a dozen times between 1998 and 2009. The warmups don't compare. Due to the cut times, all the swimmers are much closer in terms of speed. I don't mind slowing down or speeding up *slightly* off my intended pace if it means not needing to pass. I prefer to not pass and I do not touch people's feet, but that's something of a personal preference. I will also turn around in the middle of the pool sometimes to avoid passing when it is clear in the other direction. The skill level is so varied at USMS Nationals that it is often necessary to pass. To make matters worse, sometimes I found myself catching the same people again within another 50 yards. Swimmers should recognize where faster athletes are congregating and that is usually in the middle lanes. Also, if someone is trying to pass, hug the laneline. This was my first USMS Nationals meet and I had an amazing time. All things considered, the warm-up scenario was much better than I expected and nowhere near my worst encounters from some USA Swimming competitions. The Sectionals meet warmups are probably some of the worst I've experienced. I think many people are underestimating the likelihood that there were simply accidents. With lots of bodies and waves moving people in unintended directions, there is going to be some contact. For the most part, I don't believe people are intentionally hitting others. There no single solution that will make everyone happy. Just do the best with what you got.